Talk:Becky Baker/@comment-4689567-20141007041114/@comment-3284502-20150915185445
What was that you were saying about people not reading posts? Because I did say I wouldn't mind Becky having more of a voice. Hell, I even said it might have been an interesting thing to see why she came to have those views. That said, I do NOT want it to seem like bigotry is okay in any ways, shapes, or forms, Because it isn't. How she became a bigot? Interesting idea, possibly even potentially sympathetic. Bigotry itself seen as a legitimate view? Uh uh. Nope. I got NO patience for that. Christianity as a legitimate viewpoint? Well, yeah, what else would it be? Christianity and bigotry are two different things here. Once again, the Bakers are not portrayed badly because they are Christians. The Bakers were portrayed badly because they are bigots. Once again, it is VERY wrong to make bigotry sympathetic. So, how would you portray this as a two sided issue without condoning bigotry? I would legitimately like to know. Please tell me a good way to make this two sided without condoning transphobia or homophobia. Bigotry is wrong, and if being glad that it was outright portrayed as wrong makes me close minded, I'll gladly take the label. Because it IS wrong to be transphobic/homophobic. Does that mean it's wrong to be Christian? Of course not. But being Christian and being bigoted are not mutually inclusive. You can be one without being the other. Becky straight up tried to say Tristan could not be in the play because he was gay. That is discriminatory and homophobic in the extreme. She also tried to use homophobia to sabotage the play (ex. trying to get Dave to drop out of the play so he would not be seen as gay, using homophobic slogans on her protest signs, which then inspired her brother to kidnap and lock Tristan up, where he would have left him for who knows how long - and it is not an accident he targeted a homosexual child, I assure you.) and tried to keep Eli's play from making money because, if it involved homosexuality, it didn't deserve the money. Tell me more about how she's seen as in the wrong for being Christian, and not because she's being a homophobic brat. Don't get me wrong, I love Becky, but there was NOTHING appropriate about her homophobic behaviour in season 12, and being Christian is not an excuse to be bigoted because there are plenty of Christians who are nothing of the sort. I never said most Christians were bigots, or even that most homophobes were Christians. That is simply not true and, yes, IF I said that, it would have been very close minded and prejudiced of me. I said that there were some Christians who were homophobic and treated LGBT+ people badly. That is not bigoted, that is simply a fact. It is also a fact that there are Atheist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Bhuddhist, Pagan, and Agnostic bigots. Bigots come from all faiths and no faith at all. The show was bound to mention it sometime. That said, most of the bigots on this show are not Christian. Most of the bigots on this show are bullies with nothing better to do - like Jay, or season 3 Spinner and Alex. Like Owen, season 10 Bianca and Fitz, like the thugs who jumped Marco. None of them were religious - they were punks without lives who didn't give two shits who they upset, and being gay was a hook they could jump on to hurt someone. There are also Christian characters without a shred of bigotry - Marco. Darcy. Clare. Jenna. Becky later on. Drew. Adam. Luke from the Jesus club. None of them are bigoted. The only bigoted Christians on the show were early season Becky, Luke, and the early Christian Club. Luke only uses his faith as a crutch to excuse his misbehaviour, so I'm not even sure his faith means much to him. Becky educates herself on LGBT issues and is not as rude anymore. That's a good thing. Everyone has to grow and change at some point, regardless of their faith. Nobody is perfect and everyone has learning to do. Becky never stopped being Christian, but she DID stop being hateful, which is a good thing and I don't see the issue. That's fair enough. I didn't see it that way though - I thought it was fair enough her parents influenced her - they raised her! I'd be surprised if they didn't. But it's clear that even when she does disagree with them, she still believes in God. She always thought for herself - when she had issues with her faith regarding the play potentially being cancelled, she changed her mind by herself and went to help out. Adam didn't make her do that. He called her out on her bigoted signs, because he thought they could have scared Tristan, but he didn't MAKE her go on stage. She could have just looked for Tristan. She could have made Luke confess. But instead she got up on stage and went in the play. That WAS thinking for herself. And we've had other Christian characters whom were clearly free thinking and not innocent regarding sex, so I don't see the problem with Becky being a bit more sheltered and innocent. There are girls like that. I certainly knew a few in my high school. That doesn't mean they're all like that (Hi Darcy!), but it does mean they exist, so I don't think showing a girl who was a bit sheltered and naive was too far. Again, fair enough and I'm sorry for that. I admit, I came on strong and I can see how "goodbye" can be dismissive and rude. I'm always up for a good debate, so if you wanna keep going, I'm happy to. But again, this is a topic with a lot of strong feelings, so don't be discouraged if people come on strong.